The Luxury Of Frugal Thinking

by FrugalBabe on July 8, 2010

I don’t know the exact demographics of our town, but it’s definitely a lower-income area than the city where we used to live.  There is only one grocery store in town, and it’s not stocked with organic produce and ten dollar jars of coconut butter.  Houses here are lot less expensive than they were in the city (which is the reason we were able to afford our 3/4 acre lot here, and for that we’re grateful).  We love the down-to-earth nature of the town, but we’re also aware that there are probably quite a few people here who are struggling financially.

We’ve moved beyond the days when frugality was absolutely necessary because of our low income.  But we continue to keep our expenses at pretty much the same level they were at when we were poor, because that allows us to move as quickly as possible towards our goals.  We want to add a window in our dining room, and even though I suppose we could technically afford to just have a window company put in a new one for us, we’re going to head over to the Habitat for Humanity thrift store and poke around in their enormous used window stash and see what we can find.  Frugality is so ingrained in us that we just prefer it that way.

But I wonder if it’s a luxury to be able to make decision like that?  Well, I know it’s a luxury to be able to ponder how to go about adding a window to a room… what I mean is whether it’s a luxury to be able to think in terms of buying things used, minimizing our ecological footprint, growing our own food, etc.?  The things we do are things that people a few generations ago did without even thinking about it.  But these days, it seems that people who are talking about things like environmental preservation, reusable shopping bags, thrift stores, and organic gardens are all relatively well educated and well off.

50 years ago, having a backyard garden was commonplace.  Now, it’s not as common, and I notice when I walk through town that the poorer neighborhoods don’t seem to have gardens at all.  A garden is a very frugal way to provide food for a family, but it does require a time investment, and people who are working two and three jobs probably don’t have the time.

It seems completely counter-intuitive, but I feel like frugality is more popular among people who don’t have to be frugal, but rather choose to be frugal.

Why is this?  Is it because middle class people have more time to ponder their choices?  Is it because we’re exposed to more choices in the first place?  I know that not having a TV is a very good influence on my family in terms of avoiding commercialism and advertising.  And I know other families have made the same choice.  But I wonder what the average income and education level is for TV-free households?

There are definitely people who are living below the poverty line and absolutely thinking outside the box in order to make ends meet without going into debt.  But I feel like many of us (at least those of us who are blogging about it) are living frugal lives in order to be able to save money for retirement, our children’s education, and various other goals, rather than to stretch a small paycheck to cover the bare necessities.

This has been bouncing around in my head for a few days now, and I’m still not sure if I’m doing a good job of explaining my thoughts.  Basically, I feel like more needs to be done to help people who could truly benefit the most from frugality gain a good understanding of the options that are available.  What do you think?  How can we make high quality organic food available to people who aren’t making a ton of money?  How can we encourage the dual benefits of avoiding consumerism and protecting the planet, when people are struggling just to make ends meet?

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Tagged as: environmentalism, frugality, organic

  • RB

    I totally agree. My husband and I probably wouldn’t qualify as super-frugal and we fall in the category of high earners, but we do use reusable bags, recycle, purchase used when possible (and prudent), and have gotten rid of cable (not because we can’t afford it, but because it’s not worth it) among other things. I used to ride the bus to work for the cost savings. I could have afforded a parking space downtown, but it’s not worth it for the money, the hassle, or the environmental impact of me driving. (I have since changed jobs and public transportation is not an option). However, I mentor a very low-income teenager in our city. Her family lives for their cable. When her mother has a job, she never even considers taking the bus, even though it would be very convenient. She and her whole family have blackberry service and large texting plans on their phones (my husband has a bare minimum cell phone plan, and work pays for my blackberry). Meanwhile they are living off government assistance, she rarely has healthy food at home (if any food) and her parents balk at any medical cost (she wears glasses that are not anywhere near the correct prescription). While I try to not talk badly about her parents, I do question her about the choices that she makes with her money (very small amounts at this point), and try to model fiscal responsibility. Her family would benefit from a dose of frugality to significantly improve their quality of life and provide options for their daughter (for sure they have no college savings for her, even though she is incredibly bright). I don’t think her family would buy into the organic/local food movement, but they could have huge cost savings and stretch their dollars a lot further with some education about eschewing consumerism and learning to live frugally.

  • Erin

    This is a big problem and you’ve articulated it well. I wish I had ideas for a solution, but so far all I’ve done is notice the problem.

  • FrugalBabe

    Morrison,
    Energy efficiency is our number one priority in our new window hunt. We’re flexible in terms of size and style, but we’ll be looking for a new-ish window, double or triple paned. We’ll also be utilizing energy efficient window coverings during the summer, as the window will be facing south. One of the reasons we want to put it in is because our house has only two small windows that face south, and we want to get more passive solar heat in the winter. But we will be sure to find an energy efficient window.

  • morrison

    Be careful when re-using old windows. They’re not as energy efficient as the newer ones being produced today. You may think you are saving money by utilizing an older window but if you waste heat or a/c because of it, you’re not doing the planet any good.

    As for being frugal, I have been doing it voluntarily for decades. It takes time to be frugal. And the commodity of ‘time’ may not be available for a lot of people.

    The time vs money scenario has been a constant battle for me. I have the time to do things but in order to do things (like remodel, repair, etc) it takes money (to buy the supplies, parts etc.). If I work to earn the money, I won’t have the time anymore to do the repairs, so I may have to hire someone to do the repair. It’s a Catch 22. So, what I’ve been doing is: work, save the money and then wait for time off to do the repair/remodel/whatever. This scenario requires ‘patience’. Lots and lots of patience.

    Balance. That’s the key.

  • http://www.uncommonlybrilliant.blogspot.com Mike Crosby

    You’re right about me. I don’t need to be frugal, but I am.

    It would be interesting if I could go back to my younger days, where I went through some tough times. Now I think it would be quite easy.

    A few examples: Going without food for a number of days is no big deal. In fact it’s the greatest gift one can give oneself. Of course, when I fast, I do select the time and place.

    Eating beans are not a poor man’s meal to me. It’s a wonderful way to eat protein while not partaking of factory raised animals.

    My child is getting out of prison next year. He’s never had a job. Dumpster diving, bathing in public bathrooms and sleeping under a bridge isn’t a bad life.

  • http://www.frugalnfit.wordpress.com Robyn @ Frugal ‘n’ Fit!

    Wow, this is a really thought-provoking idea! When you mentioned the $10 jar of coconut butter, I immediately thought of myself, having splurged on this very item last week!

    I am very choosey when it comes to what I’m frugal on, and this is, of course, a sheer luxury. I am frugal by choice, not because I have to be. I have read a ton, both online and in (library) books, about frugality and voluntary simplicity and have had to really do some searching to find like-minded people.

    I totally agree about the importance of encouraging frugality not just because of the benefits of avoiding consumerism, but to help save the planet as well.

  • Tom

    I think you at least partially answered your own question:

    “But I feel like many of us (at least those of us who are _blogging_ about it) are living frugal lives in order to be able to save money for retirement…”

    “A garden is a very frugal way to provide food for a family, but it does require a time investment, and people who are working two and three jobs probably don’t have the time.”

    I don’t think people on low incomes who are frugal and are working 2 or 3 jobs are also blogging about it. They are probably spending what little time is left with their families.

  • H

    “It seems completely counter-intuitive, but I feel like frugality is more popular among people who don’t have to be frugal, but rather choose to be frugal.”

    I think it’s because people who have the education and life skills to exercise frugality are able to save money and/ or earn more income in the long run that they don’t have to be frugal any more. Some people have low income by choice (eg. starving artists) but that’s not the case for most people. A lot of factors that contributes to low income (eg. unstable family life, lack of education) would also contribute to someone not understanding how to be frugal, making poor choices, not being good at delaying gratification…

  • Bonnie

    Frugality of the type you speak of is very difficult for those in poverty situations.- and even the way you call it “frugality” rather than “getting by. :) I think that perhaps some of your commenters are ascribing to a bit of the bootstrap fallacy, though, unfortunately.

    Many rent, and cannot perform the energy efficiency upgrades to their home (or laundromat) that we laud. Those who live in subsidized housing may have an actively adversarial relationship with their landlord(s), or have landlords that don’t have a lot of capital to work with, and so cannot encourage their landlords to perform said (at least without seeing a corresponding increase in rent).

    I don’t think that lack of television is really at issue here. Many poor people don’t have a television set, although I don’t have exact numbers here. The Census or American Community Survey may (it’s also a good source for other demographic information, if you know how to navigate it.)

    Gardens are indeed a great tool for saving money- but many poor don’t have either a place to put them (as they live in apartments), the capital to put one in (although some nonprofits are helping with that- see Growing Hope in Ypsilanti, Michigan), or even the simple security of being able to assume that no-one else will either steal what they produce (poorer neighborhoods tend to have more reported crimes), or force them to take it down (landlord relationships). Heck, in many low-income neighborhoods, people are afraid to grow food because the soil may be contaminated- environmental justice issues.

    Poor people are actually excellent at saving money, and making budgets stretch, as a group. The low-nutrition foods- highly processed- often have a high calorie “bang” for your buck- when you only have a couple bucks for lunch, and the only grocery store you can get to is the liquor store on the corner, that bag of blueberry mini-muffins looks like a great deal.

    You absolutely are in a luxury situation- and I applaud you for realizing that. :)

  • FrugalBabe

    Bonnie,
    Definitely a lot of good points you made there. I know that poor people face a lot of barriers healthy, environmentally-friendly living. I’m not sure about a lot of them not having TVs though… 99% of US households have at least one set: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_United_States Obviously people who are homeless aren’t counted among “households” but apartment dwellers and people renting homes in low income areas are. I don’t know how much influence TV advertising has on how people spend their money, but I’d say it’s safe to assume it has at least some impact.

    And yes, I’ll be the first to admit that I am living in luxury with all the choices I have. I know that I’m lucky to be able to grow our food in a fenced backyard!

  • http://debtmediators.com.au/ Benjamin Bankruptcy

    I worked in a free community health centre for a year trying to address food security issues (access to healthy affordable food). It’s a difficult subject because you really don’t want to be paternalistic, that doesn’t come off to well.

  • http://dianescholten.wordpress.com Diane

    I’m a new reader of your blog and really appreciated this post. I’m part Dutch-American, part Scottish-American, so I say frugality comes to me genetically. But truth to be told, I too am selective in my frugality (I am so NOT frugal about good quality food, and books and art) – and it IS a luxury.

    I think part of it is education. I just heard a program on Chicago Public Radio the other day about a group of African American women on Chicago’s south side (a poor part of town) who are teaching single moms there financial literacy. Things that I was taught by my dad as a kid are new to the women on the show – but the cool thing is that someone cares enough to teach them. The women featured seemed excited about learning skills to empower themselves to help their families. The focus (I should have said this first) was on learning how to save money.

    Thanks for a great blog and this entry.

  • Jenn

    Thank you so much for starting this excellent discussion. This is something I have thought about quite a bit as well, and it has so many facets. Keep up the good work!

  • http://www.twitter.com/jalyth Tizzle

    New reader here, also. Interesting question/comments. I currently am frugal by necessity. I have friends who are frugal by choice. I have friends who aren’t frugal, even though they need to be. I try not to be judgmental, or at least to keep my mouth shut and then let it go.

    I read frugality blogs partly because when I do get my BS, and get a “real” job, I don’t want to have lifestyle inflation. Well, not much. I enjoy blogs from the foodie/urban gardener perspective; I don’t often put junk into my body.

    There are a lot of things out there that I consider a “tax on poor people”:
    1. Parking tickets: They double (or more) in cost in about 4 weeks, if one can’t afford to pay in the first 14 days.
    2. Late fees on credit cards, cell phones, etc.
    3. Not having a cheap, quality grocery store in the area where rents are affordable.
    4. Requiring more expensive car repairs because cash was tight while the brakes were only squeaking, and not grinding.
    (These are the ones that are on my mind this week, because of my own life)

    Sometimes bad money choices that people make aren’t choices. I make some expensive choices (iPhone), and some very frugal ones (dried beans, no tv). Judging poor people, or rich people for that matter, is easy to do, but without knowing their story or motivations, one could be way off base.

  • Gwen

    Hi!
    Your point about getting people to have access to highly organic food reminded me of Starhawks EAT-program (Earth Activist Training) where she teaches people the how and what´s of permaculture. Maybe you can check out the ideas there and find out if that is a good way to take?

    Kind regards, Gwen.

  • MP

    What a great discussion. I think Bonnie has identified a number of barriers the poor face – they simply don’t have the kinds of choices middle class or well-off individuals have. That being said, the proportion of poor people who make poor financial choices, poor eating choices, poor choices in general – I would say is probably the same as the proportion of middle class and well-off people who make poor financial choices etc. It’s just easier to mask when you are relatively well-off.

    Learning is lifelong. We can learn better money management, we can learn that payday loans are nothing but legalized loansharking. But when the payday loan place is the only place you can get money because the banks have left your poor neighbourhood/community, or the banks won’t let you open a bank account with them because you are poor, then a choice you and I have because we are relatively well-off has been removed from those living in poor neighbourhoods, or in poverty.

  • http://liveloveworkout.blogspot.com/ Kay

    What can be done? Education, the provision of a place to grow!

    1. The govt can step in and create tons of community gardening plots in below poverty areas, educate them, provide them with water, compost, seeds.

    2. A friend of mine used to teach financial planning to below poverty line people in East Canada. There were many classes going on at the time – which covered, finance, food, debt management, grocery shopping etc – all sponsored by the govt. My friend herself, learnt how to roast a chicken, use it for 3-4 meals including how to make stock from the bones – by attending one of the classes. There should be many more classes like this.

    Most people make mistakes in finance, in food because they don’t know. They simply don’t know. Nobody ever told them, showed them how to cook, how to shop, how to balance a check book and why credit cards could be dangerous. In my humble opinion, It’s all about education and making that education freely, widely, easily and often available.

    3. My third solution would be to create more sports related, outdoor activities or indoor for kids from low income neighborhoods. These are the kids who need more support.

    While this may not solve everybody’s problem – it might solve most of the problem.

  • Ky Nguyen

    To answer your last two questions:

    By not only setting the example, but also by sharing the fruits of our non-essential frugality. If there’s not a gardening effort in the poorer parts of town, find an empty lot, get with the local rec center/City Hall, snag SAHPs and older kids and get to gardening. Volunteer YOUR time and help them get a garden going. Or continue to garden with them. When they work a full day or three in 24 hours and come home to find little Suzy or Joe beaming with pride over their gardening efforts and the delicious fruits/veggies they bring home, perhaps those parents will see what could be. Perhaps not, but either way, YOUR gift of time has provided an invaluable boost to their community.

    Eco thinking requires eco opportunities. If there aren’t recycling efforts city wide, then find out why and get them going. You can’t recycle if the nearest recycling facility is 50 miles away and your town doesn’t provide it with the weekly trash pickup. Look at the differences in the eco opportunities between where you used to live and where you live now. You really can’t fault people for lack of eco-mindedness when they don’t know what’s out there themselves. However, you can help to educate people on how to create these opportunities.

    You are correct in that most of us are not frugal by necessity, we are frugal by desire. So if we can acknowledge our deliberate frugaliy, then we can also acknowledge our deliberate hoarding of our time when it can be well shared with the community.

    Frugal with money, generous with time. They are not mutually exclusive.

  • http://radioventriloquist.blogspot.com GC

    great post. . .wealth isn’t just money. . . it’s time, it’s education, it’s possibilities, it’s a broader horizon.

  • Lauren (in PA)

    I used to be frugal because I chose to be. Now I’m frugal because I need to be. (dang this economy!)

    I have a few thoughts on this..

    1. I live frugally. I define it as such and it was a choice. People with much lower incomes don’t live frugally. They just live. They aren’t thinking about saving the environment, or organic eating, or anything like that. It’s just how do I put food on the table, how do I pay my mortgage/rent/bills. It’s just getting by. There is no thought or choice in the matter

    2. Please realize that having a garden and eating ‘high quality organic food’ are two completely different things. Buy Fresh Buy Local is different than ‘high quality organic food’. Organic may not necessarily be exactly what you think it is. I know that for many farmers/orchardists etc, they may follow organic growing guidelines but may not be certified organic due to the cost of that certification. Also there may be like one part of the whole list of qualifications that may not be met, due to cost, due to growing conditions. Is it really better to have a tomato or eggs shipped from across the country because it has an organic label slapped on it, or is it better to buy from a local grower/egg person, who may not be certified. For my money, I’ll buy fresh, buy local every time. But everyone has different priorities in decision making. And when it comes to cost? there is a reason that local and organic growers must charge more. it costs them more to grow their crops. I could go on and on about how broken it all is, but that’s not what this is about!

    3. Food stamps and the like. Just mentioning that one thing that frosts my cookies….i work hard to find off brand items, and fresh ingredients on sale, and man does it irk me when i see people using food stamps and such and buying so much name brand junk! Straight up crappy food. Grrr. Seems so wasteful.

    4. School meals. I think schools need to serve fresh foods/salads at better rates. My son can get a lower cost meal for a few dollars, but when he get’s the salad bar it’s like $5+. That is broken. It shouldn’t cost that much to eat healthy in our schools.

  • Sam

    I think I live in a neighborhood similar to Frugal Babes. We’ve been here since my now 10yr old was 3 – I moved here because I was poor in my college days (I went to college later then most people) & stayed because I was resisting life style inflation, wanted a smaller house & wanted my son to be with his buddies. We also volunteer for a group that does yard work for the elderly & disabled – usually in rougher parts of the closest big city (in the projects & slums). I don’t see much of what Bonnie speaks of – except the landlords not making improvements. She is spot on there – improvements/repairs do equal rent increase.
    I do see a lot of people being tired when they get off from their physically strenuous or stressful job (most low income jobs are very stressful because you don’t know when you’ll be fired over something stupid) and vegging out on the couch.

    What I see a lot of are people with plasma TV’s on food stamps. I see a lot of DVD recorder thingys rented form the local cable company. I see a lot of fancy cell phones. I see people pay three times what a computer is worth (making payments) because they think that’s what they “need”. For some reason they think they “need” to possess these toys, that these things are important. My 11yr old crt TV works great on our family movies nights – and I admit it’s probably lasted this long because it only gets turned on for a few hours Friday nights (movie), Sat mornings (cartoon DVDs so my kids can enjoy “cartoon day” like I used to) and during the winter when chores/projects/homework are done. I get made fun of for not having a fancy phone, for not having a plasma TVand what ever else but that doesn’t matter to me.

    What few sports there are, are either expensive due to equipment or there aren’t enough adults volunteering to be coaches and so the teams are cut down. Last year my son almost didn’t play base ball because for weeks they couldn’t find anyone to coach the fifth baseball team – a city employee stepped forward at the last minute. Kid’s need more clubs & sports to be in around here – keep them busy & off the streets.

    I’m finishing my State’s requirements to be a Master gardener and what I’ve found in speaking with neighbors & my kid’s friend’s parents about gardens is they just don’t know how to make it grow. My son broadcasts my gardening thing to everyone (I keep it mum because I don’t think it really matters) and since he’s been doing that I’ve been getting asked a lot of questions & advice in the past few months. I’ve seen people try to plunk veggies in to the clay like soil we have around here and wonder why the plant dies. One gal told me when she had tried to grow lettuce but it died after she sprayed it with Raid to kill slugs. So she now considers her self “black thumbed”.
    I consider it an overall knowledge thing – they need to know how to build up the soil, they need to know options for when something happens (like a bug attack), they need to know steps they can take to make it minimum maintenance. I’ve been thing about making a cheat sheet so pass around to those that have asked my advice but I don’t want to seem like a smart alleck.
    I’ve just read a lot and some of this stuff I picked up from my college science classes. It could be due ot economic background & opportunities that I’ve jumped on or sought out.

    I haven’t seen much garden theft in the slums I’ve done yard work in. I have seen neighbor kids running wild through gardens but that’s been going on since humans stopped living in caves…that said my neighbor across the street said if I ever grow sweet corn he is going to hop my fence :) I’m trying to convince him to just grow his own.

    Right now I’m teaching this one gal (neighbor of an old lady I do yard work for) how to do crock pot cooking & how to make it stretch. She likes the idea of cooking dinner once or twice a week with out always being bent over a pot– like I do. I figure if I know how to do something & I discover in conversation that someone else could use my knowledge then I’ll offer to share it with them and hopefully help them. With this gal, I mentioned that I was lazy & just cook something big in the crock pot once a week for dinner. She mentioned wishing she could pull that off and it went from there.

    Sorry I was so long winded.

  • http://fromonemommatoanother.blogspot.com/ Christina

    I hear what you’re saying. We live frugally compared to our friends but when there’s food we need to buy and the cash we’ve allotted for it is gone we usually have some extra money in the chequing account or if not in our savings. For the middle to upper class living frugally is a choice based on priorities. My husband and I both have bachelors degrees and have decided that being debt-free, saving for our retirement, saving for our children’s education and buying a home are our priorities over traveling, expensive items or even new items most the time.

    As for the TV- we have one and we don’t have cable. We’ve rented a total of 2 movies in the past 5 years and gone to the theatres once (with free passes we won). We got the rest of our videos for free from the library.

    Poverty is such a complex issue that there are no easy answers. In regards to the garden it’s an investment to get it started (seeds, tools, space) and pay for the water to make it grow. When your housing isn’t stable what’s the point of making this investment if you’re going to have to move before it can be harvested or after just 1 year?

    Education is definately part of the solution. Learning how to budget, how to grow a garden, how to sew, how to connect to groups like freecycle etc. But getting people interested in learning these things when they’re working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet is difficult.

    There are no simple answers. For me I try to educate myself in ways to be frugal and then pass it on to my children and anyone else who is interested.

  • http://www.cortneywithoutau.blogspot.com Cortney

    I really enjoyed this post. Socioeconomic factors play such a huge part in the opportunities people have, and you touched on some big issues- lack of time, resources, and education.

    It often saddens me when people criticize poor people for patronizing Wal-Mart- “Don’t they know what a TERRIBLE company it is! Tsk tsk”- or criticize them for making poor food choices- “Gross, that isn’t real food! Get to a farmer’s market!”. What the naysayers fail to realize is that Wal-Mart is a cheap, one stop shop that is open 24 hours. They also fail to realize that there are food deserts in urban neighborhoods where you can much more easily get a Big Mac than you can find a grocery store with any fresh produce.

    There are many non-profits working on issues of food deserts, trying to implement garden plots, and even pushing for ways to use food stamps at farmer’s markets. But it is such a huge problem, and so complex, as most things involving poverty always are.

  • http://www.finallygettingtoeven.com finallygettingtoeven.com

    First off I would like to say that I just stumbled upon your blog. What a great place and I love the design you have going here.

    I think more people are frugal because it is becoming more commonplace and mainstream, among all of us. The poor have always been frugal because they simply had no other choice. They didn’t sit around and discuss it to death, they weren’t reading and writing blogs about it, they just did it. Now the rest of us are jumping on the bandwagon (although I grew up in a pretty frugal family myself, the type that didn’t have to be but my parents just had that personality), I am probably one of the most frugal people you will meet. But to me it is a challenge, a challenge to myself to help take care of this planet, to use as little as necessary and to create no waste left behind me.

    Sure I could live a lot higher on the hog if I wanted to. I could drive a new car instead of the 1999 that I do. I could live in a larger home, take a lot more vacations and adorn myself with designer duds. But that is not me. I was taught as a young child never to go around life trying to impress others. Do the things that allow you to sleep with yourself at night, so I do.

  • Amanda

    I agree with some of the above posted comments that I envision people working 2-3 jobs and not coming home to family time, but to TV time, on a plasma. The sad thing is all the ads on tv make them want more stuff so they work more to buy it. Terrible cycle!

  • Cheryl

    Over the past three or four years, I have bought as much food from local sources as I can. Of course, I need more than just dairy, meat, fruit and veggies, so for the rest of my groceries, I buy organic. If an item that I need is not available as an organic product, I try to limit my purchases to staples.

    I feel that it is important for me to do this, not just for the health of my family, and not just to support local farmers, but to make these rather expensive choices more readily available to all people in the future. It’s all about supply and demand. As we “demand” more wholesome foods, the suppliers produce more, and the prices should eventually be more reasonable.

    My strategy seems to be paying off a bit. When I started, I could barely get my hands on locally produced foods and the organic stuff was expensive and of limited selection. Our newest grocer-ette is selling only local stuff. Nice!

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  • http://pennilessparenting.com Penniless Parenting

    This post inspired me- I wrote a post addressing the topic here- http://www.pennilessparenting.com/2010/07/poverty-cycle-part-1.html

  • http://thunderfingers.blogspot.com chacha

    Well, we have to be frugal now and we definitely are doing it. But we are also both college graduates from prestigious schools. I think that the issue is upbringing and education. The people that are poorer and *need* to be frugal were never taught how to be. It’s difficult for those folks to “reform” the only way of life they’ve known. I have a friend who makes a good salary who shouldn’t be struggling as much she is with her family based on her expenses. And it’s mostly the choices being made about food and lifestyle-related recurring expenses (cell phones, cable, etc).

    The other thing is that a lot of people are inherently lazy. It takes effort to be frugal. More effort than just going out and buying whatever you want. It’s more effort to remodel stuff yourself, more effort to seek out the best prices, more effort to cook for yourself than just order a pizza.

    I don’t know the solution to this problem, but agree that it seems the poorest groups are the least aware of how they can help themselves.

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  • Olivia

    A couple random thoughts to add to the pot.

    One thing seems to be an issue in poverty is expectations. What your neighbors do and have sets the bar. It’s that and TV. It’s fairly subtle. “What’s your cell phone number?”, “There’s this great show on cable you should watch,” “Let’s go to McDonald’s after work.” And if you say, I don’t have, or I don’t do… you’re looked at as weird. So to say we are frugal by choice is fine and good, and shows the value we put on educated and reasoned choices, but in many cases, where it would really make an impact, it involves a totally alien mentality and bucking the mini-society you live in.

    If I were an immigrant from a rural agrarian society and came to the US and lived among others from my country, I’d try to have a garden. (Like many of our ancestors did.) But if I always lived in a city where gardens were considered odd, I wouldn’t. The kind of change spoken about in the comments has to come from within the microsociety by someone “like one of us”. Government programs don’t really help people get out from under. Neighbor to neighbor things do. There’s hope, ideas, encouragement and accountability there.

    Another aspect someone touched on is the idea of patience. So saving, sacrificing, or working your buns off towards a big goal is “not worth the trouble”. A girl once told me, “all my friend had babies by 15.” It goes without saying, she never considered abstinence, let alone college or living in a different place. Why postpone the inevitable?

    Someone already said, poverty is a complicated issue.

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  • http://www.webmeria.com/ Anna

    My husband and I term our frugality more as downsizing where we don’t care about stuff and upsizing where we do.

    For every family, what is important to them is personal and unique. In my case, my husband has family in Europe and Australia. Family is very important to us and we would like to maintain close ties with his relatives. But travel is expensive. So we reevaluated what was important to us.

    Cable TV – boring. But we do like movies so we use Netflix. My husband likes to cook, so we make more food at home and can and freeze seasonal produce. I feel silly spending $30 on a steak my husband can replicate to better results at home. We make our own laundry soap.

    All these things allow us to be able to travel and keep in touch with family.

    I don’t think it’s traditional frugality we are seeing but re-evaluation of what we value and trying to achieve those goals.

  • http://casualkitchen.blogspot.com/ Dan @ Casual Kitchen

    I believe the reasons a person practices frugality–whether you practice it because you need to OR because you want to–do not matter.

    What matters is that we collectively share our tips and experiences to help teach others. That way, more people can put the ideas to use and also share in the benefits.

    Dan
    Casual Kitchen

  • http://kaylaksthriftyways.com Kayla K

    I am new to your blog and am excited to visit again!

    I am a “poor college student” so I can literally be considered “poor.” Unlike my classmates, however, I still drive a dependable car, live in a decent apartment in a safe neighborhood, and have a savings account.
    When I pack a lunch I am a “health nut,” when I ride the bus I am a “granola girl,” and when I wear thrifted clothes I am a “hipster.” I usually just go along with everyone’s labels instead of talking about my deliberate choices to live frugally.

    Poverty is a very complicated issue because it is easy to be on the outside looking in. We think that if people are on food assistance they should not buy soda. If they are on welfare we think they should not have cable, for example. My coworkers will go out for drinks after work but then scramble to make rent at the end of the month.

    I read a great book on this topic, “The Working Poor.” It made me realize how much “cultural capital” can make a difference for people. I may not have much money, but I am college-educated, I grew up with great role models of work ethic, and I have an extensive support system. That book was a great eye-opener and I try not to be too harsh on “poor” people anymore.

  • http://frugalhealthysimple.blogspot.com/ Marcia (Frugal Healthy Simple)

    Great post! I find this to be a pretty complicated issue.

    We fall into the category of high earners who choose to be frugal. We live in So. Cal., and when asked how we afford our hefty several thou-a month mortgage, the answer is: we’re frugal (AND we have high incomes. It’s both.)

    That said, there are a lot of poor people in my town. And I do see issues with frugality in the poor.

    Some are very good at making ends meet. These people tend to be the new immigrants. These are the people I see picking up cans for money, growing food, and shopping at yard sales. These are the people cutting lawns and cleaning houses.

    And I think that’s one of the problems with the “urban” or “Suburban” poor these days – they are a generation (or two or three) removed from old-school frugality of gardening, canning, mending. I know that I have a single full-time job and I barely have the energy to water my tomatoes and carrots (really, garden is TINY). But my mom was tired too, but she just did it. Because that’s what you did.

    Now we have whole generations of people who don’t know how to cook. They are used to eating meat. They don’t know how to replace a button or fix a hem. They don’t know how to knit. Their only entertainment is TV. They grew up eating out. And how do you retrain whole generations of people? Because many of the rural poor in my home town are much better off – they tend to have land, or family with land, where they can garden.

    I do know some folks working 2 jobs, but they are the folks with the I-phones and the Blackberries, and the vacations.

    As far as healthy eating goes, there are serious issues with many poor and the “food deserts” where they just can’t get healthy food without a car. Locally, Backyard Harvest goes around and will pick your fruit from your tree (if you invite them to), and redistribute to the food bank.

    My own long-term plan is to turn the patch of dirt next to my street to a garden, with things like hard squashes (things that peel. People walk their dogs out there). And if the neighbors want to “help themselves”, have at it!

    I guess part of the issue is the expectations. I’ve found with some of my younger relatives, they “expect” central air conditioning, nice clothing, and cable TV, because they had it growing up (though they didn’t when they were first born). They want to live as their parents did after much work.

    And with coworkers and the medical care thing…there must have been a period of time where there was a lot of union work, government work, and the like, with “free” medical. I didn’t experience it (except in the military). But the attitude that I see is that medical should be “free”. I hear complaints about copays, about premiums, about this and that. I grew up with very little medical insurance, so we paid many things out of pocket. And it was EXPECTED that you would pay for your medical care, and that it was more important than having nice “stuff”.

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